Two Rivers Converge Festival 2024.

Green Pledge Project Podcast Episode 2.

Transcript

00:00:00

Birdsong…

00:00:14

Christina: Welcome to the Green Pledge podcast from Gloucestershire Archives.

Travel with us through time to discover stories of local people who've protected nature and addressed climate change. We'll dive into the historic archive, bringing to light our environmental past.

Birdsong…

Christina: To reflect on the present and imagine what our future could be.

00:00:54

Astronaut voices from Gaia soundtrack, taken from the moon landing recordings:

“Apollo, Houston I guess we're beginning to pick up a few craters very gently. The whole thing is pretty bright.”

“Roger that, there’s not much definition up here either out on the horizon. We’re now approaching craters C and…”

00:01:11

Christina: I'm at Tewkesbury Abbey today, and the huge Gaia, a globe of the earth is hanging from the ceiling, the vaulted ceiling of the abbey. It's absolutely beautiful, and it's slowly, slowly turning. And there's hundreds of people here just gazing up with a soundtrack.

00:01:34

Astronaut voices from Gaia soundtrack, taken from the moon landing recordings: 

“So, I took a picture of the full earth. the first full earth, man - colour shot, which is my favourite picture. And it showed immediately you know that the Earth was very pretty, very delicate, there was nothing but blackness around it, but it sure showed that the Earth was a very beautiful but quite fragile place.”

00:01:57 

Christina: And I've also been talking to members of the public about what's important to them, about the environment, what changes they've seen in their lifetime and what they'd like to see, and maybe some of the small changes they've made themselves to try and make less impact on the earth.

There's lots of other stall holders here as well. And so, I've been going around talking to some of them.

There's people here from the Rivers Trust and the somebody here about composting and Friends of the Earth, Plastic Free Tewkesbury and us, the Green Pledge Project is here at Tewkesbury Abbey.

00:02:41

Christina: When you're watching that globe slowly turning, you realise what a fragile planet we're on. It feels very poignant. 

00:02:56 

Astronaut voices from Gaia soundtrack, taken from the moon landing recordings:

“I remember thinking I just wish that everybody could experience this view of their home planet so that maybe it would re-prioritise what is important to them, and make them less angry at their neighbours and make them more concerned about doing what they can so that we preserve the beautiful planet that we live on.”

00:03:19

Megan: My name is Megan Dunford, and I am the community engagement producer for the Roses Theatre in Tewkesbury and for Tewkesbury Culture. I helped to organise this event with the Abbey and with Cate Cody who's a local green councillor. And this event is about bringing together organisations and charities and businesses are all working across the county to promote greener initiatives. This is our first festival celebrating the connection, I guess, between culture, climate and heritage across the borough of Tewkesbury. In the main nave of the abbey, when you come into the north porch, you can see Gaia, which is a huge eight-metre-wide installation of the earth by an artist called Luke Jerram, who's based in Bristol. And this is really the herad, the hero event if you like, the main event of our festival.

00:04:12

Christina: I'm going to ask everyone this today. What changes do you think you've seen in your lifetime in terms of the environment?

Megan: I think about this quite often, I'm part of the problem a lot more traffic on our roads and a lot more congestion in different areas.

Christina: What changes would you like to see?

Megan: The way our lives are, and our lifestyles have impacted greatly on the way we consume things and the way we encounter everyday activities or lead our lives. So, I would like to see slightly slower pace of life going forward, and I think that would help people to feel more confident in being a bit greener.

Christina: In either big ways or little ways, what do you do in your own life to lower your impact?

Megan: I think I'm really conscious of how much I consume at home. So, in the last couple of years I've switched to eating less meat, less processed products, and my father was a dairy herdsman, so it pains me to say it, but I've reduced my intake of milk and things like this because there's a huge impact. I've also bought less fast fashion very consciously. I mean, I think a lot of people are aware of the challenges, but with fast fashion, the impact is huge on the environment. So, I buy far more second-hand clothes or just less in general. And I try to with the job I have, encourage people to think more sustainably about the materials they use. So, a lot of the work I do is about bringing people together in creative environments. So, whether that be creating workshop materials or using sorry workshop materials that are sustainably sourced or getting to events in sustainable ways, I try and encourage that as well.

00:06:01

Polly: My name's Polly Gannaway-Pitts, I'm here today as part of my role with Gloucestershire Youth Climate Group. It's a group for sixteen- to twenty-five-year-olds who get involved, want to get involved in climate action, basically. Yeah, we work with the County council on that. And yeah, we get young people to have their say on on policy and kind of get involved with with action projects in the county. 

Christina: That's amazing. And so, you've got an activity laid out on the table in front of you. Can you just describe to me what you're asking people to do?

Polly: A lot of the time when we think about climate and when we talk about climate, it can be really difficult, and it can be really intimidating and quite scary and talking about kind of like scientific facts and figures. And so, what we do is we kind of take a really creative approach and and an approach of like hope for the future as well. And okay, like, what are we going to fight for? What we what do we want to make sure is there kind of in our future. And we know that there’d be a lot of young children here today, so basically got a big roll of brown paper, the facilitators best friend, we’ve got loads and loads of gel pens. And and we're also asking kids to draw the future they want to see a lot of focus on kind of like animals and the importance of animals to young children and family as well and flowers and bees.

00:07:33

Christina: What's the change that you've seen in your lifetime in terms of climate and environment and nature?

Polly: I grew up in Tewkesbury, so definitely like flooding, seeing the impacts of flooding and climate on everyday people. I kind of didn't look it massively into climate until, like a few years ago. I'd say, I’ll hold my hands up and say that I just kind of knew that it was a thing that was happening and knew that it was bad. Yeah, but the more that I've learned about it, the more I kind of see like around the world, the different impacts of it. And I think, yeah, there's a lot of impacts that we maybe don't, don't see day to day in front of us. But, but it's still kind of happening to to places and communities.

Christina: What changes would you most like to see?

Polly: I would like to definitely see a change in how decision making happens. I think there's, there's definitely sharing power would have a big impact. Community climate action is really important, and I think sometimes people forget that because it is such a huge and overwhelming thing, but small community climate action kind of initiatives are way that really empowers people. Yeah, and I think we need to listen more to the people that the climate is having the most impact on. There are massive impacts, and you know, people are having to like leave, leave their homes but we're not really hearing their voices as much and we, we need to hear those more.

00:09:06

Christina: We're hearing in the background the music from the Gaia. Have you had a look at it and what does it mean to you?

Polly: Having, like, visual things like, like Gaia, it's just a way to start a conversation really, isn't it? Having really visual ways is really powerful, for different people to kind of get that message across.

Christina: That's lovely Polly. Thank you, it’s been really nice to meet you. And you've got a couple of people sketching away at the moment, so it's really nice to see everyone engaging... 

00:09:37

Gaia soundtrack, recording of children’s voices:

Child 1: We need to act as if the house is on fire.

Child 2:  If change continues to get worse, it may not look as beautiful as it is.

Child 3: Climate change is no longer some far-off problem.

Child 4: Small act when multiplied by millions of people can transform the world.

Child 5:  And you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.

00:10:08

Jonathan: My name is Jonathan Grice, and I'm here with our two grandchildren as it's half term and we're on grandparent duties, and we've brought them in to see the globe, the Gaia because our eldest grandson is mad on space, and Tim Peaks his hero. And they thoroughly enjoyed it. They were quite, quite quiet for once when they first saw it.

Christina: Can you think of anything that you've seen in your lifetime in terms of the environment and nature that's, that's different now.

Jonathan: Hedges being taken out for lots much larger fields. We went to a trip while going around the Norfolk and Suffolk. No hedges and the soil was being blown across the road. So, we're losing topsoil, and that sort of thing is, is changing a lot for the worse really. And we are replacing soil with chemicals to encourage crops to grow.

Christina: And what changes would you like to see?

Jonathan: More emphasis on natural things. One example, particularly here I think in Tewkesbury, is the extensive flooding which we're getting. And there are much more natural ways of controlling floods than putting up flood barriers, which just moves the volume of water down to the next place downstream to get flooded. And the amount of building going on. Yeah, floodplains being built on and concrete tarmac. The water has got nowhere to go, nowhere to drain away. That, I think is an important thing to address. And we need to develop not greenfield sites, but brownfield sites for for housing. I mean yes, we we need more housing. But the question is, where are we going to put it? There's no point in building houses where there's no hospitals, schools and people have to travel, which means more cars on the road, more pollution, more congestion. And I think around here is a prime example of that personally.

Christina: Have you made personally changes in your life to have less impact on the environment?

Jonathan: We are retired, and we've been able to travel an awful lot, ticking off things on our bucket list. And I've come to realise that some of the things we've been lucky enough to see if I keep going back to see these things again, then, although I would love to go back to revisit some of these places if I overdo it, those places, those animals, those creatures won't be there for our grandchildren to go and see because our footprints will destroy their environment.

Christina: Thank you, that's really wonderful. Thank you.

00:12:54

Marion: Hi, I'm Marion Hill. I'm here with Gloucestershire Archives on their Green Pledge Project. 

Christina:  And what have you brought along with you today, Marion? 

Marion: Well, we have a range of documents going back to the nineteenth century which are showing different ways that people have been engaging with the environment, looking at wildflowers and insects. One of my favourite documents that we found was a little notebook from an eleven-year-old girl. It's showing all the wildflowers that she discovered on her walk, her daily walk to school. It's a little tiny, sort of A6 format notebook. And in her beautiful copperplate, writing in an ink pen, she's noted down all the plants that that she found in 1938 on her on her walk to school. So that inspired us actually, to do an activity that we're offering children today, which is to make their own sort of wildflower journals or notebooks, but to make it a bit more visual to in addition to noting the flower and where they found it and when to draw it as well. So, while the little girl's notebook is lovely from 1938, we thought it might be, you know, a bit more fun to actually sit down and spend some time looking at these flowers and drawing them. And we've had children from age three to about twelve, all sitting down and making their wildflower journals, binding them and illustrating the front cover and all happily heading off to to go out into the countryside and explore Gloucestershire wildflowers.

Christina: That's a lovely activity, and I can see that the children around the table right now are really enjoying themselves. They're really engaged at looking through the other picture books you’ve brought with you. 

Marion: They're having a really lovely time. I've also indicated in the book that when they go out and about, we're not expecting them to have anything like the knowledge of the little girl in 1938. But these days the Internet comes to your rescue. You can visit the Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust's Wildlife Explorer page for wildflowers, or you can use the seek app and simply point your smartphone and it will help you identify, what you are looking at.

Christina: That's lovely. Thank you very much, Marion.

00:15:16

Leanne: My name is Leanne We've lived in Gloucester about ten years ago we've moved to Tewkesbury. We actually live out on a little village just outside Tewkesbury. We wanted to basically get away from all the noise of like, the cars and the busyness. Both of my children are quite into looking at things in the garden and like we've recently done the bird watch.

Christina: Tell me what tell me about listening to, doing the bird watch.

Girl: I've seen some robins, some blue tits.

Leanne: And what did we see around the pond a couple of weeks ago?

Girl: Some herons. 

Leanne: Some herons.

Christina: Do know why you're doing this little book today? Did they tell you about the little girl that used to walk to the school? 

Girl: Yeah. She was walking to school and then she’ll write down and draw all the flowers that she saw.

Christina: And so, what are you doing now?

Girl:  I am doing a trumpet flower.

Christina: Well, that is really lovely, thank you for talking to me.

00:16:18

Christina: Do you think you've seen changes in terms of the environment or nature or the way people live in your lifetime?

Leanne: Yes. So, when we used to live in Gloucester and back in, I as I said, I think it was 2009 where everywhere got flooded and we had to go and collect all our water from the water station. I think when we used to live in Gloucester, the big power station got knocked out due to the, one of the rivers or the canals is down by the Quays. that knocked out the big power station that was down there, which obviously went on for a few weeks, obviously it had to be repaired. And obviously the water levels had come down. and I remember it quite clearly where we had to queue up to go get the bottled of water so we could make a cup of tea one of the local schools around Gloucester, which must have had some kind of different water line going through it because we were able to take showers in the sports hall once a week. But obviously that was more than what a lot of people were getting at that time.

Christina: And then you've moved to Tewkesbury, which obviously has got a history of flooding as well. So, since you've moved to Tewkesbury, has anything happened then? 

Leanne: So, where we live, we're quite, we're quite lucky. So, we don't actually come anywhere near the water, even though the water is right at the bottom of the road for us. I've had many friends whose gardens have been flooded to the point where I've seen pictures that children have been in canoes and they're canoeing in the garden. But this year since we've been as I said we've been here nine, ten years, I would said this year has has been the worst for flooding since I've been here. And obviously we have all the flooding and then we have like maybe a good week and all the flooding goes. And you can see all the grass, all the nice, lovely grass that comes back. The animals are back on the fields and then we're hit with another lot of rain and then is flooded out again. And it is unfortunate, it is really unfortunate that we get flooded so much.

Christina: Thank you. 

00:18:29

Christina: Gloucester and Tewkesbury are both areas that are becoming really well known for flooding each year. I've come to chat with somebody now can talk to us a little bit more about the flooding in this area.

00:18:41

Joanne: My name is Joanne Rawood. I'm representing Tewkesbury Town Council, who are the owners of the Severn Ham?

Christina: So, what is the Severn Ham?

Joanne: The Severn Ham is an ancient water meadow floodplain. It's one of only three percent of the ancient flood plain water meadows left in the whole country. It's a Site of Special Scientific Interest, it's been one since 1971. We have two rare plants on there, the Greater Dodder which is a parasite that lives on nettles and also the Narrow-Leafed Water Dropwort. We try and manage the Ham. We've got various parameters that we've got to work within. First of all, there's the 1808 Enclosure Act. So, the Severn Ham wasn't actually enclosed, although other commons in Tewkesbury were. But the Severn Ham there’s s a charter which says that the people who live on the main streets in Tewkesbury have a right to the aftermath. So, they have a right to graze animals on there, they tend to rent out that right now and they get a cheque for about thirty pounds each year. So, we have to manage the Ham to allow that process to happen. But also, we manage the Ham with support from Natural England because of the triple SI (SSSI - Site of Special Scientific Interest) status.

Christina: Is it an area that's important environmentally? I've never been there. What would it look like? What would I see?

Joanne: It's just a flat, plain, really, it just looks like a field that doesn't do an awful lot most of the year, but actually it's doing a tremendous amount. So, it's a, it's one of the most efficient ways of trapping and storing carbon. So, it is it's very, very useful in helping to halt global warming. It's also because of all the trees and the plants on there. It's a green lung for the town and that counteracts the congestion on the roads and the pollution that's caused by traffic standing. It's a place where people can refresh their minds and exercise their body. So, there are footpaths across there you can go and look out for the birds. You can just sit there, there are lots of benches there, you can walk around. You can go to the Upper Weir, Upper Lode Weir where and you can just watch the water rushing through, as well as that. It's a major part of Tewkesbury’s flood defence, so it soaks up the equivalent of twenty-two Olympic swimming pools worth of water when we're flooded, and it protects the town. Without the Severn Ham, the town would be much more inundated than it is.

Christina: Have you lived around here all of your life? 

Joanne: I have lived here since about 1987. I think for me, particularly with my planning hats on, I've seen a lot more development around the outskirts of Tewkesbury, around the other side of the flood plain, really, and that has actually moved the flood plain. The houses that never used to flood now do flood. And it's a real concern to people in the town as governments want more and more houses to be built in this area. They see this area as one of the fastest growing areas outside London. That puts a huge amount of pressure on Tewkesbury because it pressurises our infrastructure, our roads, our sewerage infrastructure, but it also has the potential to cause water to reach Tewkesbury faster than it would have done previously. The more you put impermeable surfaces like buildings on the land, then how you make sure you don't get that water coming down faster it is quite a problem. And yes, developers provide water management documents, and they say, no, we're putting in suds. You know, we're putting in these attenuation pools to hold the water back, but they only work as long as they're well maintained. So, it's a real worry for people in Tewkesbury. And we also don't know how all the extra development will increase the pollution of the water and pollution of the water has a big effect on the Severn Ham, so things that go into the river, like untreated sewerage, chemicals from fields. It encourages things like docks and nettles that we don't really want, and it makes it harder for things like the Narrow-Leafed Water Dropwort to grow. Ragged Robin, Greater Burnet, Yellow Rattle. All the kind of plants that are really good for what water meadows.

Christina: Are there things that you do in your own life to kind of try and reduce your footprint?

Joanne: Well, I walk everywhere. I don't drive partly to keep people safer, but I walk as much as I possibly can at home. We we try and recycle, and we try not to buy things in excess packaging, and we try to buy local and organic where we can as well.

Christina: That's great. Was really nice to talk to. You've got some people now looking at your stand, so I'll leave…

00:23:48

Cate: My name is Cate Cody. I wear many, many hats. And today's hat is actually Plastic Free Tewkesbury. And I've done this really, I guess, through my role as a town councillor. But I also sit as a borough councillor and a county councillor now, a trustee with the Roses Theatre who have helped to set up this festival today and we're really grateful to them.

Christina: Tell me a little bit about Plastic Free Tewkesbury.

Cate: You'll have heard of Surfers Against Sewage. They want plastic free towns and villages and cities all over the nation. If we all, do it, then obviously it can go nationwide. So Plastic Free Tewkesbury, we set it up a few years ago and it's about letting people know the sorts of things that they can do to make small changes in their lives, to eliminate plastic altogether. There's a little bit of information about recycling. We've got a very good website, plastic free Tewkesbury. We're really proud of that. And we got a small grant from the town council so that we could have a website, and we keep it really up to date and it incorporates all the recycling we can do locally. It’s also about getting our independent shops on board. So, we go and speak to them, and they sign up and they will take at least three items that they don't use single use plastic for anymore.

Christina: What would you say is the biggest change that you've seen in your lifetime around nature and the environment? 

Cate: The biggest change has got to be depletion. I mean, when I was a child, very fortunate. I grew up in a small holding and we had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of butterflies, ladybirds, insects. The biggest change as well has got to be consumerism. You know as kids I used to wear my brother's old clothes and its great round the farm and it's like sort of having to have new and replenishing things all the time and I think that's really sad. So, a big rule for me, I'm zero waste at home. We have a zero-waste household, haven't put any rubbish out to landfill and I think it's coming up about six years. Yeah. So, we, we are serious. We do not have any plastic bottles, you know, there's no food, drinks or products, toiletries, cleaners, nothing comes in a plastic bottle. People are a bit “Wow, how did you do that?” We didn't do overnight so you just notice the more you do, the more you notice and there'll be a big thing coming in your life. You think, why do I do that? Can I find an alternative or do without? And it's actually liberating. I really try not to buy online, we out of principle wouldn't buy from places like Amazon. I just can't understand why anyone wants to give to the richest person on the planet even more money and it puts independents out of business. So, we will always support repair cafes. Absolute advocate of them, love our local repair cafe and we will by second hand I'll put a message out online local Facebook page. I needed a bike stand and rather than buy one is anyone got a spare one? Somebody offered to actually fix it on for me, Brilliant!

Christina: That's fantastic that’s really inspiring, actually. I think I'm going to go back and put my foot down a bit more in our household, thank you.

00:27:03

Mike: My name's Michael Sztymiak, or Mike Sztymiak. I'm representing Gloucestershire Master Composters, and we're here to sort of encourage people to do some composting basically. It's a free resource that you can get for very little cost.

Christina: Master Composters is that's a really interesting name in itself. Where does that come from?

Mike: Well, it originated from Garden Organic. The idea was to encourage other local local councils to take on board and sponsor local volunteer groups to function, to perform that function. And that's what we've done. So, we are supported by Gloucestershire County Council and with the help of Garden Organic we go out and we encourage people to compost.

Christina: Why do you think composting is so important? 

Mike: Well, I think it's all part of the reduce your carbon footprint that we do produce so much waste these days, and yet it's a valuable waste. Valuable part of is recycling process. We harvest crops, food and we always there's going to be a bit of waste from not the bits it cuts off in the bits that you don't use. And what we're encouraging people to do is to put that into a composter, whether it be a wormery or compost bin and to, you know, just turn it and see the magic work, how the the bacteria, the fungus, the snails, the slugs will eat their way through it and produce a valuable commodity that in the end actually like soil and is actually a very good fertiliser can be mixed with your peat free bag of peat free compost or discarded soil and you feed the plants for years to come and you'll get another crop. And so, the cycle goes on and 

Christina: You've got three pots of compost here, different sorts of compost. 

Mike: One is garden compost. This is just come out of ordinary garden waste that I've just put into the composter stuff that's been left over, just left it there for two years and basically just took nature does its work and it turns into compost. It's very good. It does tend to have some weed seeds in it, but nevertheless it a good compost and soil improver. The other one I've got is leaf mould. That's an excellent thing to produce. It's I consider it to be the gold standard of compost. I think you've got to collect the leaves. It's quite, quite happy to put them into a black bin liner and leave them be do need to leave them for two years. Don't let them get dry, keep them moist. And again, the magic will take place and you'll be left with something. It's a very fine friable soil and it's very perfect really for growing seeds and germination seeds in because it tends not to have many weed seeds in it. So, you'll be able to spot the plants that you’ve sown in there and you better harvest them. So, and the third one I've got is the worm compost. That is a sort of a more intensive way through wormery of producing compost again, is very, very rich in nutrients and needs to be mixed with your peat free compost, all your soil probably a factor of ten to one. So that's what you get out of it in terms of the compost. But what you will also get is a liquid fertiliser, because most of the organic matter, ninety five percent of it is going to be moisture and that that matter as it breaks down filters through the worm poo that's doing the composting, but it comes out as a very rich liquid fertiliser that you can mix say ten to one with ordinary water into a watering can and just water your plants.

Christina: What’s the main changes you think you've witnessed?

Mike: I think you move to the stage where people don't have such large gardens. That's one factor. But where I come from and the reason, I'm interested in I was I grew up with a planted plants and my granddad and my father and I think that sort of stays in you. You get it into your blood. And I think those are sort of skills, you know, composting has always been, you know, what we've always done, and it seems a natural thing to do and it's something I want to pass on that sort of skill, knowledge. And I think, you know, although we might be changing a society, that resource is still there to convert into compost. Our gardens, as I said, may have got smaller, but nevertheless people still like gardening and they still have plant pots to fill. They still want to grow tomatoes and grow bags. So, you know, there's still that need and even on a small scale, people can do it.

Christina: That was all wonderful. Really nice to meet you. Thank you very much. 

Mike: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

00:31:14

Zoe: I'm Zoe I'm living in Lower Moor at the moment with my family, my husband, a dog, a cat and twelve chickens.

Christina:  And can you tell me some of the things that you might have seen in your lifetime that's changed in terms of nature or the environment or how people live? Is there anything that springs to mind?

Zoe: So much has changed, a huge amount has changed. For me personally, it's from a very basic level. It's flavour in food, which is obviously coming from us, pillaging our environment and putting absolutely nothing back into it. From an education perspective, we home educate our children because we don't feel that schools are educating children about the importance of the things that are really going to move the planet forward. We teach our children a little bit more earthy type learning so getting out in the garden, they've got vegetable patches, you know, they've got compost heaps. They you know, they know about wormeries and all these different things. And for me, I like to grow my own vegetables. I like to grow my own ingredients that I can make things like oils and balms and things to eat, drink. And to me, I just would love to see more people doing that kind of thing and embracing the resources, but also putting back. And it's baby steps. if you only make one change, maybe buy some, you know, toilet paper that's bit more ecofriendly or, you know, use a little bit less detergent or things like that just to take care of things a little bit more.

Christina:  Thank you very much. Been really nice to talk to you.

00:33:07

Anna: So, my name is Anna Burt, and I work for the Canal and River Trust. I'm the learning and skills coordinator and I'm based at the National Waterways Museum in Gloucester Docks. 

Christina:  And what does the Canal and River Trust actually do?

Anna: The Canal River Trust used to be British Waterways. But in the last twelve years, we've become a wellbeing charity now, so we are conserving twenty thousand miles of connected rivers and canals for the future as more of a sort of green and blue space for people to enjoy, for nature and for humans as well. At Gloucester docks we are connected to the River Severn; we do have the implications of being connected to a tidal river.

Christina:  What are you seeing? 

Anna: Well, what we've seen in recent years, we've had very hot summers, we've had droughts, because we're relying on the River Severn to provide that water to keep the level of the the docks to a certain level for the boats to be able to travel in and out. Over the past few years, when the the water from the River Severn has been pumped into Gloucester docks to keep the water level up, it's brought with it a lot of the silt, a lot of sand, and a lot of mud because that water level was so low in the river and it's now created massive dredging, very expensive project as well. So, we have to dig out all that silt so that we can get back to having all our boats and people being able to navigate through the docks and back onto the River Severn, up to Tewkesbury.

Christina:  Is it just a leisure area now or is there still industry around it?

Anna: The docks itself has been around for nearly two hundred years. In fact, the Gloucester Sharpness Canal is just coming up to its two hundredth anniversary in a few years’ time. So, at the time it was built for industry is built as a way of big ships, boats being able to navigate up from the Bristol Channel through the canal and bypassing the very treacherous parts of the River Severn as time moves on and new types of transports on land have been developed, trains, lorries, M5, that sort of thing. So, it's no longer an industrial site, it’s now a residential and leisure place. So, if you go to the docks today, you'll see people buzzing around, people on their flat in flats as people go into the restaurants and the cafes. So completely different sites from when it was originally built.

Christina:  What changes you feel like you've seen in your lifetime in terms of the environment, climate, and nature?

Anna: I can think back, say thirty years as a teenager, people were starting to talk about climate change then, and they were saying that in fifty years’ time we would have hotter summers, there'd be more storms in the winter, but now that's come forwards quite a bit by two decades at least. You know, we've seen what's going on, the flooding through the heavy, heavy storms, multiple storms. We're getting out, getting through the winter. So, I've seen the changes of so within the last ten years. And so, you know, is on this trajectory that's going to increase as well.

Christina:  What would you like to see change in the future?

 Anna: I think we've the the damage pretty much has been done, but we need to prevent further damage being done to our planet. And I think that comes from education as well.

Christina:  What do you do in your own life to try and kind of have less impact?

Anna: I try and use less natural resources. For example, I've got water butt outside. So, if I'm watering when it comes from the rainwater, not the tap water. And I recently moved into a new home, which is energy efficient as well. I turn off appliances when I'm not using them. So, you know, it's a benefit for the planet and also a benefit for the the back pocket, the purse as well.

Christina:  That's great. Thank you ever so much. Nice to meet you.

00:37:28

Lisa: So, my name's Lisa, and I'm here with the Canals and Rivers Trust. I'm part of the Explorers Team that do the educational visits. We either go out schools and do workshops or do water safety assemblies with them, or they come into the museum and visit us.

Christina:  Tell me what is that's on your table because it's really interesting. 

Lisa: So, we've got three skulls with us today. So, we've got a heron which was hoping that children will be able to guess with its big, long beak, and it being Tewkesbury, hopefully they've seen them out on the river. We've got a very young badger and we're trying to get them to look at the teeth and the badger and try and guess what it eats because it's got very sharp teeth because people tend to think of badgers as nice, big cuddly things and they're not really. And then we've got a rabbit as well, so they can look at how different the teeth are on the rabbit. That that they've got little short nibbly teeth and then they've got flat teeth to grind the grass with.

Christina:  Then there's another really interesting box of artefacts on your table which are bird's nests. 

Lisa: We’ve got four bird's nests with us. We've actually got a really nice what looks like a snuggly one that everyone would choose to live in. That's made out of moss and that's for the Long-Tailed Tits. And we've got a really small nest that’s lined with feathers that belongs to a Goldfinch. We've got a really beautifully woven one out of grass, which is a Black Bird, and then a similar one that is a Song Thrush, but that was lined with mud that they put in there and mixed with their spit. So, nobody's quite so keen to live in that one. 

Christina:  You're a volunteer, aren't you? Why do you volunteer for the Trust?

Lisa: I volunteer because I've actually got a canal boat, so it's a way of paying something back for them, looking after our canals. And I used to be a teacher, so I like doing all the school visits and seeing all the children come in and have a nice day in the museum.

Christina:  What changes have you seen in your lifetime?

Lisa: In my lifetime, I really notice it this time of year that we haven't had a proper snow. We haven't really. I think we've only really had two big frost this winter. Whereas being from the Forest of Dean, I used to be snowed in for a week and that just doesn't happen anymore and a lot wetter, a lot more rain than they used to be. When I first moved here, I knew the rivers were here and I knew that Tewkesbury flooded and the only time I knew of Gloucester flooding was in the big flood of 2007. And now it's every year we're seeing more and more flooding. And that's what I notice.

Christina:  This is about climate change, isn't it? What kind of changes would you like to see? 

Lisa: I'd like to see proper cycle lanes put in. Because in the forest we have a lovely cycle path through the woods and things for the tourists to enjoy, which are absolutely brilliant. But I couldn't cycle between the towns in the forest. I used to work six miles from my house, and I couldn't cycle there because the roads are too busy and too dangerous. And there was no real route through between Coleford and Cinderford for me to be able to cycle and on a bigger scale, people not using their private jets all the time to fly between concerts and Super Bowl games would be quite nice. I feel that people like us do a lot. We all recycle, we all think about our journeys and things like that, but I feel like the little people doing a lot on the bigger people aren’t.

Christina:  I couldn't agree with you more, I couldn’t agree with you more. Thank you, that's lovely…

00:40:51

Christina: I've learnt so much today and spoken to so many people. It's been fascinating. There's only a couple more organisations left to visit. 

I'm with Tessa, Holly and Rowan, who all work with Greener Together at Gloucestershire Libraries.

00:41:05

Holly: We’re trying to diversify our spaces by kind of making the spaces have events and workshops and people do lots of different things. You know, they're not quiet, dusty old spaces that aren't used. They are exciting, innovative community hubs.

Christina:  And what is the Greener Together initiative?

Tessa: We have a fantastic range of books, events, and we also have a Library of Things in Charlton Kings. The libraries offer a wealth of services to do with the environment and making sure that, you know, the members of the general public are well informed about, you know, the environment.

Rowan: Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. It's sort of about the sort of breakdown of the environment, and obviously very relevant to now.

00:41:50

Christina: Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring in 1962 and is recognised as being one of the most influential books of the twentieth century. Less than ten years later, in 1971, Friends of the Earth were founded and I caught up with Helen Carver, who represents the Tewkesbury branch. Have you been in Friends of the Earth for a long time?

Helen:  I think probably about twenty or thirty years. We're a small group, sometimes nowadays people are more interested because of concern in the environment and in the public eye and the pollution and plastics and how they take hundreds of years to decompose. We meet every month in the in the Cross House pub, have a beer and and discuss our various issues. Our current campaign is is testing for river pollution in the River Avon and its tributaries, which are the Carrant Brook, you know, one of our members is testing the water in the Carrant Brook, every week. I test the water in the River Swilgate. Both these go into the River Avon. Another member's testing at the actual River Avon. And we take a sample of water and I've been issued with a kit which I've learnt how to use, swing a bucket into the river Swilgate, much to the interest of passersby, and I pour it into a jam jar which is clean. Then I put, I test it for electrical conductivity, I’m not quite sure what it is, but I think the higher the conductivity is higher, the matter in the water are more polluted. It is. And the temperature, Then I take it home and I put I put a dipstick in it for a minute and that test for nitrates. Nitrate should be nil or one and all the time it's four or five which is higher than it should be. I put it into test tube, and it shows me the phosphate and each time the phosphate higher than it should be. And really, it's to press home to the authorities that yes, ordinary people like me are so concerned about the pollution. Please do something about it by not discharging sewage into the rivers, some of these agricultural runoffs and that’s our current campaign. 

Christina:  In your lifetime, what do you think the major changes that you've seen in terms of the environment?

Helen: The significant pressure on biodiversity. And, you know, I say to people: “When you driving along in your car in the summer, do you see insects splattered on your windscreen now.” “No, I don't.” “Well, if you drove your car thirty years ago, you would in the summer, your windscreen would be splattered with insects.” So that's what I've seen, a change in. But we're we're having a talk is called ‘The Soil Microbiome. How green plants, fungi and microbes can save our world.’ with Dr. Christine Jones I just learned how this network of fungi is in the earth and and we need we don't want it to be threatened again with biodiversity. That's another aspect of it. 

00:45:03

Gaia soundtrack – children’s voices

Child 6: We don’t have time to sit on our hands as our planet burns. For young people. Climate change is bigger than election or re-election. It's life or death. 

Child 7: It'll take radical action to save us. It will take radical action to save us. It will take radical action to save us.

Child 8: Nature is one of the most exciting, amazing and incredible things in the whole world. Everything's unique in nature, nothing's identical, and every single bit of is like a complete wonder.

00:45:46

Christina:  It's been a great festival. Do you think you'll try and do it again next year? 

Megan: Absolutely. It's been a huge success. What I've seen today are lots of families coming into the Abbey. Perhaps, maybe they've never been to this kind of heritage building before and lots of people who are really engaged in green initiatives and it's really exciting to see all that, all that in the same place happening at the same time. So yeah, I'm really excited to start planning. I already have started planning next year's festival. So yeah. 

Christina:  Well, we'll be here. Thank you very much Megan. 

Megan: Thank you.

00:46:20

Christina:  Thank you to everyone who talked to me at the Two Rivers Converge Festival. and thank you to the National Heritage Lottery Fund who've made this project possible. And enormous thanks to Luke Jerram and Dan Jones for kindly giving permission to use the striking, thought-provoking Gaia soundtrack.

The Green Pledge project at Gloucestershire Archives has been made possible by the Heritage Lottery Fund. We're committed to being part of the conversation about climate change and biodiversity loss. The archive also has pledged to reduce its ecological footprint, through using less resources, reducing waste, and in our Heritage Hub Garden by encouraging wildlife and growing food for local people. If listening to this podcast has inspired you to make changes in your life, you can also make a pledge through our partners at the Gloucestershire Wildlife Trust. You can find out more by visiting our website, which you'll find in the programme notes.

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Thank you for listening.

00:47:44